(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #1

I am taking part at the first organisational meeting for the next Degrowth conference in Budapest and there is a good chance the organising group wants to go for a 15MMM mapping jam in the next weeks.

There is mention of an existing map of alternatives, but which is not updated since 4 years.

(Thomas Kalka) #2

Could you provide pointers to the map ?

(adrien_despoisse) #3

all the information on this page below. half of them need to be reviewd as many organisation has apperaread or changed places

How this should be done ?

(Thomas Kalka) #4

You mean “dissappeared” ?

But, yes: we have to find ways, how to review data.

One possibility (only suited for abandoned work, that means maps, where nobody cares any more):
Import them to mmm.3oe with appropriate tags, that mark review status.
Then we can work together to check data.
We could also write some code, which does basic checks automatically (for example: is url stille reacheable ?).

xTODO: How to do this is an important question.

(Michael Maier) #5

As for data imports (especially when the source is older) there is a strict policy on OSM: Each single item has to be checked manually before importing. Sounds a lot of work, but is the only way to keep the data up to date. I would suggest to use this approach for TransforMap too.

And btw, the maps on are created with G-Maps, so we CANNOT use them in OSM directly :-/

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #6

But we can get the points somehow, right? You mean this process has to be done manually?

(Michael Maier) #7

Yes, for every single point we have to:

  • verify that the site still exist, e.g.:
  • by looking on its homepage and checking every single attribute (address, opening hours, …)
  • doing a survey on the ground
  • asking locals, calling the tel-nr.
  • if there are recent edits on OSM on this POI, that’s okay too
  • look up the coordinates of the address in OSM
  • adding TransforMap tags
  • then we can merge each POI manually into OSM.

Opening the KML-file in JOSM and copying everything is neither allowed nor practicable, as every interesting information is hidden in the HTML popup of the KML points.

I think @toka would propose a similar workflow for the semantic mediawiki input mask, if we are interested in up-to-date data :wink:

(Thomas Kalka) #8

I would propose a wiki-way of improving the data:
add a review status to every input and set this to “imported from”.
Then let it be peer and robot reviewed …

(vliegey) #9

Hello everybody,
I think it would be interesting to implement a participatory dynamic around this project for several reason:

  1. We cannot put people who do not want to be listed (Hungarians don’t like so much publicity :wink: ).
  2. The majority of the alternatives in Budapest would be happy with such a project. The goal is to connect the people as well… so a participatory process with a launching meeting and different steps sound meaningful and coherent.
  3. We know quite well who is doing what and where… the most important is to make the peope feel that they are involved in the porcess and they belong to a collective dynamic. To create synergies and cooperation. So it requires time, physical meetin and trust. :smile:
  4. It could through the organisation of the next Degrowth conference and our will to open it in a decentralize way.

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #10

Hi @vliegey, nice to see you joining the discussion!

The idea of 15MMM is to have a first testmapping and use the opportunity to start bringing the people together who want to describe/map the alternatives they know. It needs not necessarily to be the people of the alternatives themselves, but if they are public (facebook page, etc.) they will anyway eventually get publicity. Those who are not public, who want to stay within circles of friends, should obviously not be mapped.

This is only one of the many steps we can make towards engaging the different people, collectives and spaces for the Degrowth conference - and an opportunity to get some feedback on the tools and taxonomy, so that we can improve the mapping system and build up something relevant and useful for the participants of the degrowth conference, as well as the communities around it.

The first step for this would then be to find a date and place (Cargonomia?) for the workshop. And decide on a tool to use. Taking into consideration what you already have and the comments from @toka above, I think the Semantic Mediawiki would be the most appropriate tool for you to use.

(vliegey) #11

Yes, Cargonomia would be happy to welcome a workshop on it.
We would invite Meszelato with who we have good relations. :wink:

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #12

@vliegey and @adrien_despoisse, we have just allocated some money (up to 250 €) to support transfer and update of all the points you have from the old mapping initiative in Budapest to the new TransforMap. You can of course use part of this money to pay someone from Meszelato, or how you wish to do it.

We also provide technical support to transfer the points from Google into TransforMap/OpenStreetMap and procedures for cross-checking the information.

Deadline for the points to be on the map is middle July and I need a confirmation and responsible person from you until June 25th.

(vliegey) #13

Thanks a lot @gandhiano
It more than perfect for us.
I will coordinate it and we (Cargonomia + Meszelato) will be ready in the middle of July.
Could you please let me know how to get the technical support to transfer the points from Google into TransforMap/OpenStreetMap and procedures for cross-checking the information.
Vincent and Adrien

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #14

@species will support you with the technical details on data migration.

(Silke ) #15


Weekly project schedule
(Michael Maier) #16

I’ve written a (lengthy) How-To on how to import bulk data on OpenStreetMap - @vliegey, I will gladly guide you through the process, and help where I can!

(vliegey) #17

Thanks @species. :smile:

(Paul Free) #18

I’ve met during the decrow conference Annesley. He, by his own information, knows nearly all inititatives in Budapest cause of his job he was once involved and is interesting in mapping.

With who will I connect this person as best?

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #19

@Annesley_Newholm is already connected, both here with Transformap and with @vliegey.

(Annesley Newholm) #20

Who wants to connect with who?