Clarification of tag goals

Hi,

I’m super interested in this project, however when reviewing the current taxonomy I’m a bit confused about some of the tags.

Isnt it possible to derive some info from existing tags, for example could provides be determined by other existing tags that define the building types?

It would be great if each of the tag groups could have some description of the intended user needs that they solve.

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Hi Paul,

thanks for your interest!

It is very well possible, e.g. an “amenity=restaurant” basically implies “provides=food+drink”! The use of the “provides“-tags is currently only needed when no OpenStreetMap “primary” tag exists for an object to be mapped. We encountered a lot of “alternative” POI types only slowly getting OSM tags, (e.g. fablabs, CSAs, open spaces, …) use “provides” until a tag gets established. A list of OSM objects implying our needs-based “provides” tag is currently worked on - see columns I-M in this Ethercalc.

I’m currently working on filters for our maps, where the user should be able to filter the POIs displayed based on our needs. E.g. when he selects “food+drink”, only POIs related to that (restaurant, markets, community gardens, volxküchen, …) should get displayed.

The use of the “topic” key should be more straightforward - use it e.g. on a club=* to tag its goals.

Could you please specify what kind of descriptions do you miss (give an example?)? We are kind of tunnel-visioned, it has become very hard to write descriptions the ‘normal’ OpenStreet-Mapper understands :wink:

Thanks in advance,
Michael

Hi Michael, thanks for responding :smile:

So is the idea partly to use the “provides” tag (and others) as custom tags because the official OSM approval process for alternative POIs takes too long?

For better descriptions, it would be useful to consider types of personas who would use this information and what their needs are. Are there some broad groups of people who have common needs? What are the differences between “activists” trying to build a new economy v regular people who might just find new things in their area? How does applying “topic”, “mode of interaction” and “identity” tags help their needs?

Partly, yes.
Another reason is that in our current testmapping process, we don’t know most of the exact POI types the users want to map yet. One part of the Mapping Month May is to collect POI types, to propose them to OSM later on :smile: And we want to know, where these myriads of alternatives fit into our taxonomy (or if they don’t fit, that’s valuable too!).

For the descriptions, I may invite @Silke to join the conversation? I’m quite busy atm with implementing the filters on our maps^^

Isnt it possible to propose tags and just start using them anyway? Would it be better to just extend the OSM vocabulary for amenities and also put forward to be official?

What’s the best way to comment on items in the Ethercalc? What about to add a column of links to OSM wiki pages for items that have wiki pages?

Of course! Although the usefulness of the current proposal process is being debated lately on the tagging-mailinglist, everyone can start a proposal.
We just wanted to wait until the most used POI types emerge from testmapping. It doesn’t make much sense to propose a tag that is used only once.

That’s exactly what I and other OpenStreetMappers are doing :wink: But we cannot expect from a newbie user to invent new tags on-the-fly as she maps. It is easier to use the general “description” field for the newbie than searching for new tags on their own.

When a sufficient amount of similar new POIs are mapped, of course a proposal for new tags will be created, a new tag is agreed on and made “official”.

You can use column F and link to the OSM-Wiki (use the “link input box” button).

Hi, sorry for the late reply!
The “needs” we’ve “selected” are everybodie’s needs, everybody needs to eat and drink, to find shelter, care and cloth, to be mobile somehow, participate in social life etc. En essence the idea is to thrive towards a needs-based economy, where things aren’t produced because they can be sold but because we need them, they solve a problem or whatever.

Therefore; everybody can use it easily, you don’t need to be an activist. Say: You wonder, where in my neighborhood do I get something I need without having to buy it in one of the establishments of the “old school economy”. -> If you need food you click on food and the “mode of interaction” you wish (gifting/ bartering etc)

That is: If you combine the “needs” with the “mode of interaction” you can easily find those POIs that provide/produce food in a non commodity based way (hope this is the way to explain it)

As for the “identiy” tag: this one is actually adressed to activist groups; commoners want to learn about each other, Ppl from the Solidarity Economy want the show the mushrooming of Solidarity Economy on a map etc, these people perfectly know how they self-identify and therefore “tag” it.

Was this clear enough?

Hi @Silke that makes sense. Are you filtering the maps/data to only include these categories though? How strict is the classification? I wonder how many things partially achieve goals related to an alternative economy but still use currency for example?