Mailing lists

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(Jon Richter) #61

Hi @toka, how can I join all mailing lists at the same time from the same email address via the web interface? Is there a central login to Mailman which allows me to simply click a join button to do so, or do I have to type my details every time again?

Is there any reason why we are not using the <listname>-announce, <listname>-public, <listname>-private, etc. pattern? I like flat namespaces, but I also like comparability. These above could possibly read similar to the pattern the W3C uses

  • Public
    • public-global where is being migrated, read only and moderated
    • public-german where is being migrated, read only and moderated
  • Contributions
    • public-global-contrib where active partners can discuss
    • public-german-contrib where the, meanwhile extended, initial group of #14mmm (the DACH scene of alternative economies) can discuss
    • public-chest for status updates and announcements, read only and moderated
    • public-chest-contrib for contributions to the overall process
    • internal-chest for administrative conversation in the team
    • public-ssedas for status updates and announcements, read only and moderated
    • public-ssedas-contrib for contributions from partners
      Remember there are still threads on the lists. Why we don’t need separate lists for every conversation.
    • internal-ssedas for administrative conversation in the team

instead. The title of a list would in a sense be self-describing its role. The goals here are

  1. to have as much guidance as possible about where to send specific messages once they occur.
  2. to keep as much conversation as possible out in the Open Web.
    Meaning directly linkable and easy to join with a web browser, not neccessarily involving email (legacy and threatening Internet technology) to contribute.
  3. to consider mailing lists as a fallback communication channel only to be used if others (Discourse, Taiga, …) break.

I am quite worried about the dev, log and team handles, as I don’t see any benefit over Discourse’s general notification system enabled by groups like

Let’s just keep in mind every organization of communication channels is also organizing the social process around, therefore impeding power structures. Else please explain to me how you want to create comparability to the circle structure and avoid uncontrolled growth in the same time. Some questions to get the conversation started:

  • What is the difference between dev and team? Isn’t the conversation of the team about the development, thus in contrib channels?
  • Or should all projects’ contributions feed into the same contrib/dev(elopement)/log stream, flattening the overall organizational structure and abstracting away the projects? (Which is good in a sense!)
  • Does log create any advantage over the moderated public lists? Should its Discourse handle rather publish there?

I just don’t want to lose focus and create new organizational patterns which stand perpendicular to the circles/Discourse categories, scrum, the landing page’s sitemap, etc.

2015-12-05 | Sprint retrospective #2 and sprint planning #3 online meetings
(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #62

I am afraid we might be overstructuring the communication. I don’t see a need now for further lists than the global and german, which replace the existing ones.

It would in my opinion be more helpful to invest effort in automating announcements from discourse (e.g. reports, calls for meetings, hot topics, etc.) to these mailing lists (e.g. by subscribing it to a specific category in discourse).

And having someone, or a group of people (communication circle?) making sure that regular updates are sent to these lists. @alabaeye already offered to start writing summaries of the developments and debates, to share with the larger community. Lets see how much resonance this gets.

(Thomas Kalka) #63

I did not find a way to do that. But currently I see my suggestion not as approved so lets talk more, if we find a consent view on it.

Yes. I tried to suggest a simple, announce or notification only infrastructure, whithout bureaucracy and naming schemes.
Imho there should be no discussions run the mailing lists.

I also think that moderated and private lists should go somewhere else.
Perhaps we should even use some different domain ( to make this clear and have normal mailing lists with different policies run under ?

Hm. It seems that discourse improved its notification system (didnt this handles got expanded in the past?).
If yes, then the mail-forward could be just part of this groups.

Our circle names seem to be known only to insiders. I suggested to use some more easily guessable names.
So “dev” -> active monkeys, “team” -> all active circles (can groups be part of groups ?)

The idea behind “log” was to have all public traffic get dumped there. I don’t know, if anybody would like to use that, but we will see if people subscribe themself or not.

Hm. Perpendicular is good, IMHO, since it creates a new dimension.
Parallel would be duplicating efforts.

The basic idea is to add a level of notification to all our public communication, which is not dependent on getting involved in discourse.

(Josef Kreitmayer) #64

Plus 1

Plus 1

@toka excellent, that you set up the german and global list. Thank you as well for the SSEDAS list, but my need for lists was misunterstood. There currently is no need for such a general SSEDAS list.

Where are we in the deployment process of german and global?

  • I tested both yesterday with the result, that my message needs approval by the moderator.
  • What is good next steps, how I can contribute to get global and german running smoothly?

(Josef Kreitmayer) #66

I subscribed the current scrum team for testing.

(Josef Kreitmayer) #67

@toka should we watch out for something specific for propper testing?

@almereyda is the list from the former mailing lists somewhere as backup, so that we can import it, once the testing is done?

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #68

In Mailman 2 every list is independent and there is no central user DB. This is apparently different in Mailman 3.

The German list seems to be working, not sure about the global. Could you @toka or @josefkreitmayer update the state of the task to done once you are finished with testing and adding everyone from the old lists?

(Silke ) #69

@gandhiano wrote: "I would in any case not make the global and German lists as announcement only, not for now. We need first to stabilize/restore the communication
before going for the next step. "

excellent point!

pls once you’ve set up the German and Global lists just send an e-mail explaining shortly what happened and that they are now working again and can be used by those subscribed (i.e. those who receive this e-mail)
thanks to @toka for the pragmatic solution

(Josef Kreitmayer) #70

Hello @silke,

would you like to join the testing (just some mails back and forth, to see if it works.)

next steps:

  • test a little bit more (3-5 mails going around), getting feedback on the welcome-message.
  • get the backup from the old mailing lists from @toka @almereyda or someone else in charge of the old list, and import the old subscribers.

(Silke ) #71

hi, does this mean that ppl need to sign up again? I.e. we don’t have
the old lists / mailing adresses anymore?

(Josef Kreitmayer) #72

@silke no : )

it is just an invitation now for you, if you would like to join testing. No need to do so, but would very likely speed up the process.

(Silke ) #73

puuuhhh, good news, I was afraid we’ve lost all the contacts.
I am happy to join the testing …

(Josef Kreitmayer) #74

@toka @almereyda

thank you for condensing the mailing lists down again to the 2 essentials, that we had before.

@toka what more in testing do we need?

@almereyda, could you provide @gandhiano or @toka with the backups / contacts from the old lists?

How is it actually with Backup-Truck factor? If they are stored in non communal servers, or such, which are not accessible by the other webmasters, that could be fatal.

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #75

I think they are by now tested enough and working properly.

Who will add all the contacts to the lists again? And should they be notified on subscription, or the list is simply “reactivated” without notice (well, we can nevertheless give it on an e-mail to all)

(Silke ) #76

pls let me know when the mailing list works again, I would like to put a message on the list

(Gualter Barbas Baptista) #77

They are in fact working, I think the only thing missing is someone, which adds the former members back to these new lists. @almereyda @josefkreitmayer @alabaeye one of you was going to do this, right?

(Josef Kreitmayer) #78

If the former contacts from the lists are supplied, I am happy to import

(Josef Kreitmayer) #81


Hallo Thomas,

danke für Aufsetzen der Mailinglists und Einarbeiten der Mailinglists-Backups!

Du wirst dich vielleicht schon gefragt haben, was aus deiner begonnen Arbeit mit der Mailingliste wird / geworden ist : )

Ich würde (werde) den Einladungs-Email-Draft für ca. 20. Februar vorbereiten aus mehreren Gründen:

positves und next steps

  • Ab dem 20. gibt es positives zu berichten sowohl in der IT-Entwicklung (nach dem Witzenhausen Hackathon)
  • Auch von SSEDAS wird es da einen ersten realtiv fertigen Taxonomie-Entwurf geben (Deadline für die Version, die dann kommentiert werden kann ist 19.2. (ojala, Daumen drücken, die Partner haben bis 5.2. Zeit Vorschläge einzusenden)
  • Insbesondere dieser Taxonomie-Entwurf mag ich einladen in der Taxonomie-Gruppe durchzukauen. Evtl. werde ich da vorher schon gezielte Emails aussenden, bzw. auch mal zu einem Call einladen (mit Jason Nardi von Ripess soll es auf jeden Fall mal einen Call geben).

Es stehen gerade recht viele Sachen an

  • für SSEDAS ist eben die Sammlung der Taxonomie-Vorschläge im Gange
  • für Chest ist am 15. ein Bericht abzuliefern
  • Witzenhausen vorbereiten
  • übliche tummulte auflösen : )

Könntest du (bei Zeit und Energie) evtl.

  • diesen Thread aktualieseren.
  • mal einen Blick werfen auf diesen Issue mit der Website (wie siehts du das eigentlich mit der Website, irgendwie hat glaub ich @species, bzw. jemand anderer über ihn erwähnt, dass die privacy terms von dem plattform-anbieter gar nicht so ohne sind.

Könntest du dir das vorstellen?

wie geht´s?
: )

Wie siehts du grad den Prozess und was wünschst du dir?
Hättest du Zeit / Lust / Energie in Witzenhausen mit dabei zu sein?

liebe Grüße

(Jon Richter) #82
  • Is there any documentation about how to access and administer these list services?
  • Did these backups also include the mailing list archives?

A collection of the list members of the, again working, old lists can be found in

(Josef Kreitmayer) #83

@alabaeye that is the reqired text:

Maybe people should also get a note, what these lists are, and that the replace the old lists